First want to ask you how long you have known Joop.
Uh, I don't know--two and a half years, two years, something like that. I don't remember so good any more.
You're almost eleven, aren't you, thus you were around 8 or 9 then, weren't you?Yes.
Can you remember how you first got to know him, how it went?Yes. We were going to play football. I was on my bike and the chain came off and Joop said, "Here, let me put it back on." Well, I could do that myself, but he wanted to do it so I let him. Then he asked, "Would you like to come in?" So I went in and then I started playing football with him more often. And so one day we started doing sex. It happened very quickly. I didn't know anything about sex, but I learned in a hurry. One night I went to the toilet and he started playing with my cock. So we began making out, I mean having sex.
What did you think about that atfirst?I was sort of shy, but later, when I'd been coming there a week or so, I got used to it.
The first time you had sex, that was right at the beginning, you said, you hadn't known him so very long?Two or three days only. That was when I was still in the children's home. I came to his place every weekend, and sometimes during the week, too. I'd tell them in the Home that I was going to go outside and play, and then to my mother.
So it was right at the beginning, you said. Can you tell me what happened that first time?You mean the sex? Well, first he asked me. He said, "If you don't like it you must tell me." And so he started doing it a little with his hand... He did that for a while, for a few days. Because I live close to him-I come over a lot. And finally-I think about a month later--I did it to him, too. And two weeks after that we had complete sex with each other... just about every day. Every day I came. Now I come every day, because I'm back home. Just about every day, but sometimes not.
If you had to say who started the sex that first time, who would it be?Who started sex the first time? He did, of course. I didn't even know what sex was. Okay, I knew what it was but not that.
Even though you'd done it yourself little?No.
How do you like knowing all about it now?I knew all about it when I was ten.
What happens now when you have sex with each other?We just have a little sex, jerk each other off a little, and then we just go to sleep, take a little nap.
Can you say who starts it, when you have sex?Either of us. Sometimes me, yeah, mostly me. But he, too, real often.
Can you tell me how you do it if you want to start?I come up close to him and say, "I want to tell you something." Well, if anyone knew what that meant... that's what he always thinks. But I don't think anyone's figured that out.
And then you go to the bedroom?Yes, but a lot of the kids know, so they say, "Oh, no, not that again! Just hurry up and cum!"
Is it different now from that first time you had sex with Joop?A whole lot. We didn't used to do it together. I didn't know much about him, and now I know just about everything. I didn't used to have much contact with him, but now I do. And that first time wasn't really true sex.
Does anybody know that you have sex with Joop?
Yes, people who come here to the house.
What do those people think about it?They never mention it.
And your mother?I can't let her know anything about it. She does know, but I just say it's not true. But I just keep on coming to Joop.
So really you're lying a little to your mother?Of course. I'm not going to be kept away from Joop.
Just because, uh...
What do you think your mother would feel about your having sex with Joop?I guess she'd think it was dirty. She'd think a man doing that with a child was not normal, that you just shouldn't do it. That's what she'd say.
And how do youfeel about her thinking that way?Rotten stupid! Although I wouldn't tell her it was rotten stupid. I mean, what business is it of hers? It's my business what I do.
Do some of your friends know about it, too?Yes, friends from school, they know, because they're always ragging me about it a little. Maybe half the school knows. They talk about "queers" and so on.
They call you queer?No, I don't let on I know they're gossiping about me. I'm not that stupid, because then I'd really get bad-mouthed.
Those boys probably also find it dirty?Well, I don't know. Could be, because they wouldn't say it was dirty if they really didn't think it was.
How do youfeel about your having sex with Joop?It's just really nice.
Its no problem for you?It's just like a man going to bed with a woman--I think it's exactly the same: nice. And the feelings and so on they have, I have too.